Guest Article

On the seven hundred and seventh anniversary of the Battle of Bannockburn, Dr Julie Anya Guthrie celebrates the victory and reflects upon the Guthrie descent from Scotland’s hero king.

The Guthries descend from King Robert the Bruce, victor of the Battle of Bannockburn – or do we? 

I started my family history research initially because of my ignorance about my mother’s Russian Vorontzov – and subsequently Georgian – ancestry, which was challenging. Reading Cyrillic script for more than half an hour or so would give me a headache, but it was a walk in the park compared to Georgian script.

I then started to research my Scottish Guthrie ancestry, which was much easier, thanks to the excellent ScotlandsPeople website. I was not very surprised to discover that the Guthries of Craigie could be traced back to the Guthries of Guthrie but I was surprised to discover that the line could be traced right back, via Margaret Lyon, to none other than Scotland’s Hero King, Robert the Bruce, victor of the Battle of Bannockburn.

Oh, and to answer the question I always get asked, the American singer-songwriter Woody Guthrie is not a relation. DNA analysis reveals that his Guthrie line is unrelated to the Scottish Guthries of Guthrie.

As detailed in the useful genealogy published the Clan Guthrie, USA, Margaret Lyon, six times great granddaughter of Robert I, “the Bruce”, King of Scots, married Sir Alexander Guthrie, 2nd of Guthrie, who was killed at the Battle of Flodden in 1513.

The direct Guthrie male line ended with William Guthrie, 7th of Guthrie and he was succeeded by his third cousin once removed, David Guthrie, 7th of Kincaldrum, who became 8th of Guthrie.

Patrick Guthrie, 10th of Guthrie left the Barony of Guthrie to his fourth cousin once removed, The Rev. John Guthrie, 11th of Guthrie, whose sons predeceased him. Francis Guthrie, 3rd of Gagie had married John Guthrie’s daughter, Bethia, and the Barony of Guthrie from then on was held by the Gagie line.

The direct male Gagie line became extinct with Ivan Douglas Guthrie, 20th of Guthrie, whose daughter Moyra became 21th Baroness of Guthrie. She was succeeded by her son, Alexander Ivan Bedini Jacobini Guthrie, 22nd Baron of Guthrie.

But my own personal interest was further up the tree, via John Guthrie, 1st of Hilltoun, (marked in red two images above) who was the ancestor of our Guthrie Barons of Craigie.

It was Sir Alexander Guthrie, 2nd Baron of Guthrie, who married Margaret Lyon, the great (x3) granddaughter of King Robert II, first of the Stewart Kings, who was himself the grandson of King Robert I, “the Bruce”, the victor of the Battle of Bannockburn.

James Guthrie was born on 28 March 1698 in Dundee. He was the great grandson of the Rev James Guthrie of Hiltoun, younger brother of the Rt Rev. John Guthrie, 11th of Guthrie. In 1728, he acquired the Barony of Craigie, by Dundee and in 1772, he matriculated arms. Unlike in later grants there was no image of the arms, so the above is my own interpretation of them.

Note: Correction to numerals of Barons of Craigie

The confusion concerning the current Baron of Craigie (who has been referred to as the 8th Baron) has been resolved by personal communication with the office of the Lord Lyon. They informed me that “as Rabbi Thomas purchased the barony but not the lands from the Guthries, he would not be regarded as other than the first of his line.” 

Verifying the Tree

How wonderful to have most of your family tree already researched for you and to discover that you are descended from Robert the Bruce.

But are we? I am not so sure.

It is generally believed that Sir Alexander Guthrie, 2nd of Guthrie, married Margaret Lyon, daughter of John Lyon, 3rd Lord Glamis, and Elizabeth Scrymgeour. John Lyon was the great great grandson of King Robert II, and so a gateway ancestor to the Royal House of Stewart, the Bruces, and the House of Dunkeld.

Sir Alexander Guthrie 2nd of Guthrie died at the Battle of Flodden on 9 September 1513 along with his eldest son, David Guthrie, younger of Guthrie. The barony then passed to Andrew, David’s son by an unknown daughter of Ferquherd Mackintosh, Chief of Clan Chattan, who became the 3rd Baron of Guthrie.

However, there is an entry regarding Margaret Lyon in The Scots Peerage which states:

Margaret, married (contract 10 June 1495) to James Rynd, younger of Broxmouth; tocher 400 merks.⁵

⁵ marriage-contract Glamis Castle.

If that entry is correct, and the date of the marriage contract does seem to be coherent with those of her elder sisters, then it seems unlikely, although not impossible, that she could be the mother of David Guthrie, younger of Guthrie and grandmother of the Andrew Guthrie, 3rd of Guthrie.

Additional secondary sources such as the Family database at stirnet.com and the Clan Macfarlane genealogy site list Margaret Lyon as the wife of firstly James Rynd, younger of Broxmouth and secondly Sir Alexander Guthrie, 1st of Guthrie, with the latter noting: Her marriage to Alexander Guthrie is not confirmed. 

According to another secondary source on a Canadian site, Margaret Lyon had two marriages/partners. Her first husband was James Rynd, who she married in Abt 1495. The place has not been found. They had no known children. Her second husband was Sir Alexander Guthrie. They were married, but the date and place have not been found.

If James Rynd, younger of Broxmouth, died soon after he and Margaret Lyon were contracted to marry in 1495, then she might have immediately gone on to marry Sir Alexander Guthrie, 2nd of Guthrie, and have a son (David Guthrie, younger of Guthrie) who might have been been born ca. 1497 and been old enough to fight at the Battle of Flodden in 1513 and have an infant son and heir.

Another possibility is that Margaret Lyon was Sir Alexander’s second wife. It would be useful to discover whether James Rynd, younger of Broxmouth and Margaret Lyon had any children, when he died, and to see whether there was a marriage contract between Sir Alexander Guthrie, 1st of Guthrie and Margaret Lyon.

No original source has been found for a marriage between Alexander Guthrie and Margaret Lyon. If a marriage contract for them does exist, then it might be at Glamis Castle. There is a research facility, for a fee. However, although many charters from Glamis have already been recorded, a marriage contract between Alexander Guthrie and Margaret Lyon is not amongst them. 

So, are we really descended from Robert the Bruce? I would have to go with the old Scottish verdict of:

Not Proven!

About The Author

Julia Anya Guthrie

Julie Anya Guthrie is from a small hamlet on the west coast of Scotland. She has Scottish, French and Russian ancestry and is married to an Italian. After graduating from Edinburgh University, she worked in France and Switzerland before returning to her native Scotland. Her influences include William Wallace, Gaetano Donizetti and Rosa Luxemburg.